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Andrew Doris's avatar

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I have more respect for your broader thesis - NATO expansion significantly contributed to the deterioration of US-Russian relations and ensuing invasion of Ukraine, but that was worth it - than I do for the people who deny any connection between those things. And I think there were real benefits of NATO expansion for the countries that were able to slip under the umbrella in time.

But your specific argument here has too many rough assumptions to compel me. I get that you're not The Lancet, but it seems a real stretch to attribute a doubling of GDP and 4 years of life expectancy to NATO membership based on a naive comparison of countries in and out. Especially when you just admitted that even things like alcoholism rates and corruption levels play an important role. Is the causal theory there that investors just had more confidence investing, because they were less scared of Russian attack? You'd probably need some sort of regression controlling for many other factors. And as you said, EU membership/free trade has a more intuitive connection, while being less threatening to / exclusive with simultaneous Russian ties. You can argue one facilitated the other, but it's not a 1:1 relationship.

It's also not an all or nothing thing. There's a big difference between no NATO expansion after 1990 at all and NATO trying to expand all the way to Ukraine, as each subsequent expansion eroded Russia's buffer and increased Russia's perception of threat to its interests. If the US had expanded NATO to every single country now included BUT not declared that Ukraine would join in 2008, and publicly announced it did not support Ukraine's membership, that alone may have sufficed to prevent the invasion. Even if not, there were plenty of stopping points along the way that would greatly reduce your 100 million people/400 million life years figures.

Other commenters here have made other good points. But again, broadly speaking, I recognize there were benefits as well as costs and wish our policy had been driven more by conversations like this, that attempt a good-faith weighing of both sides of the ledger, instead of soaring feel-good rhetoric about the end of history and universal Democratic triumphalism.

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Theodore Yohalem Shouse 🔸's avatar

Interesting article, I enjoyed it. I think you might be underestimating the risks and drawbacks associated with the Ukraine War. I tend to think that the greatest problem with great power war is not the immediate human cost, which is obviously awful, but the opportunity cost for global cooperation. The greatest threats to humanity in my view come from nuclear weapons, bioweapons, pandemics, climate change, and AI. And these issues can only be addressed internationally, due to collective action problems (and because these problems tend to transcend borders).

So when America gets into a cold war with other great powers, it's next to impossible to set up the global governance structures necessary to deal with these issues. For example, regulating biotech and virology labs will be even more difficult and more intrusive than IAEA inspections. I'm not optimistic about our chances to achieve global cooperation on these issues sans war, but it seems like it would be much easier if weren't at each others throats.

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